But first I have to thank you for your post, it’s so refreshing to read something critical of PAB. In reading the various posts it does all sound very self congratulatory. And please feel free to disregard everything that follows if you don’t agree with it.

I don’t think it is all about back slapping, I think of it as affirmation and being supportive. In the post modern world we live in, I find that it’s difficult to accept encouragement at face value, without irony. All the same, I believe it’s genuine.

While I disagree with you as far as how well the event serves the community, I can certainly empathize with you, being a first time attendee myself. I also felt like an outsider and it was hard to engage other people who were strangers to me. The fact is that even podcasters have difficulty meeting new people too. Even experienced veterans. I think Bob Goyetche’s comments on the last Canadian Podcast Buffet was accurate, that many podcasters are introverts. I certainly fit that category. It’s always an effort to put myself out there. All the same, it’s my responsibility to do that. All the open arms at PAB won’t do me any good if I don’t persist in overcoming my own inhibitions.

But I don’t want you to think I’m ragging on you. I think your comments are valid and a necessary part of the back and forth that is shaping this developing medium. Perhaps the real problem is that the call to action at a social media event is to meet and connect, but the very people drawn, like moths to fire, are the least suited to the task. (Wait, I see you mentioned that you’re not unfamiliar with the meet and greet process, so maybe I’m talking about me. Maybe you’re talking about me. Talking to complete strangers is like walking on hot coals. Setting up interviews, making phone calls, it all makes me sweat inside.)

Let me just add these thoughts on some of your comments.

Monitization: [I believe] The field is too immature to direct people to successful strategies for monetization, although lots of conferences do so all the same. Yes, I realize it is possible to make money podcasting (and I certainly would like to get me some), but all the hype that has been generated on this topic takes on the appearance of some get rich quick seminar on TV at 2am. I think the reaction you heard from the audience was the result of this fatigue.

Tech skills: There are other venues available for technical skills. If there were a separate track for newbies on tech issues PAB would not have been the same community experience, I think it would have created a division or separation between the two groups of attendees, which is antithetical to the mission of PAB.

I like the fact that there’s only one session for everyone, I just think they need to squeeze another 10 to 15 minutes into each hour so there’s more opportunity to talk to people.

This is a conference about the future of the media. A vision thing. The messages were about how to use your platform, how to attract people, how to develop content that fits the medium. But more through presentation, concept and intent – storytelling skills. I think storytelling in the Podcasting medium was the consistent theme.

Todd Maffin and Tim Coyne talked about communicating on a personal level. Other speakers were directing our attention to other issues within the same context – to think about how and why we’re communicating, how are we connecting with your audience and to what end.

Eventually lots of people will be making a living off of podcasting, but will they all end up sounding the same? If you define the means for supporting your dream, do you end up having to cut off the corners of your dream to make it fit? When they ask the question, “How can I sound authentic and unique”, we’ll be on to the next thing, because we’ve already covered that ground.

I’m not saying give up on the tech stuff; do both at the same time.

I see PAB as an idea conference, shaping the future. We’re lucky to have one like this handy. There are a ton of conferences on how to podcast and they will be glad to tell you how to make a living at this, though they don’t know. No-one knows, but your relationship with your audience, that’s something you can change.

We’re living in a brief window of opportunity where we can do anything we want with a podcast and it’s okay, because the rules aren’t set yet. PAB is about keeping your mind open and NOT focusing on the same dull tired topics. (Money is dull? That’s an overstatement1)

I like podcasting because it’s a forum for ideas, free of gatekeepers (I don’t seriously think that’s true, but it is less restrictive than most media). I think Mark reference to PAB being a Second Tier event means to be the next step, or level up from just how-to.

It’s like Maslov’s hierarchy of needs, only this event has skipped the first steps, like how to feed yourself, be secure and support a family. That’s important, but isn’t it great that here you can jump up to meeting the bigger questions without the distractions of sloging through the mud of making a living.

Wow, there’s an idea, PAB is like a monastic retreat!

Of course Chris is right, monetization isn’t a dirty word. And haven’t we heard this call to arms in media countless times before. The fear is that money leads to loss of control and mediocrity – just look at it’s effect on politics. It’s a valid point. Predictably people are both right and wrong.

It happened to software in the 70′s where computer hobbyists wanted software to be free and complained about the commercialization of software. Hard to believe. In the early 90′s the “hippies” wanted to stake out the web as a non corporate, free utopia. As if by saying it they could make it so. The money followed for software and the web , it followed for the Bloggers and it will follow for Podcasting. Someday soon people will make a living from Facebooking, or Twittering. Money always follows crowds.

So, while all that is getting sorted out, I’m listening to the subtext of the sessions from PAB and I get that they’re talking about creating a platform for yourself that has longevity. Technical stuff is a breeze compared to telling good stories consistently.

So Dave, thanks for hosting this comment. I hope I haven’t come off as harsh. Chalk it up to exuberance . As I look out into the distance of social media yet to be, i feel a combination of vertigo and heart-pounding anticipation and it makes me want to break out into a song. But that’s just me.

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Okay, I read your About page and I understand a little better where you’re coming from. I still think the medium is too immature to consider reliable methods of making a living. I think content wins over production values.

The advertisers are going to engage the Podcasting medium at their own speed. This isn’t like venture capitalism where people drop millions of dollars just because an idea might have legs. Advertisers are a conservative lot, and while I feel strongly that the money would be well spent, we have to overcome a lot of resistance to convince them that niche marketing is superior to the model they’ve been successfully using on TV and radio for the past 80 years.

And while this is working itself out (and people such as yourself are helping them work it out) each of us, individually, needs to do the work of creating a reason for advertisers to invest in the content we create.

I’ll address this in a slightly different way that might make sense, once you think about it: even though we do something called “social” media, a whole huge contingent of those people who do this aren’t exactly the most social creatures. They’re shy. Flat out shy. And the problem with shy is that it looks like snobby to lots of folks.

When five shy people know each other at an event, they cling to each other like survivors to a raft. To the outside, that looks a lot like a clique.

I can almost promise you (almost) that most of the folks at PAB were thrilled that they knew each other, but weren’t necessarily not interested in being your friend.

Maybe it’s something we can address much more next year. Let the gregarious amongst us shake everyone together. : )

Hell, even I didn’t get much time to talk with you. But we’ll fix that. : )

Perhaps it’s because i walked in without expectations and absorbed everything that was being offered, knowing how much time and preparation goes into organizing such an event.

I too suggested a “podcasting clinic” to address issues any novice podcasters might have to spare them the grief I went through by sheer trial and error – yes, i bought “Podcasting for Dummies” in 2006 .

Though i’ve worked in the film/TV industry over 16 years, this is not the same discipline, and the learning curve was tantamount to climbing a steep cliff without a safety harness.

However, this gathering did not smack of cliquefest to me – as is the case in any group dynamic people will acknowledge those who are familiar to them first but at no time did i feel like i was on the outside looking in.

Chris Brogan’s Jolt covered monetizing from a constructive and horizon broadening perspective and was enjoyed by all in attendance – no one booed him off the podium. Perhaps resistance to commercialization is a knee-jerk reaction to our being bombarded with advertising everywhere else and our being told what to do, who to be, how to be, in order to achieve success, fame, fortune, status blah blah blah

By my count, you were in a room full of mavericks who were proud and willing to share their creative (mis)adventures from every angle – emotion may not be valued in our society as a tradeworthy commodity, or something that can spank up your resume, but it’s what defines us as human beings and what makes outstanding podcasts – this was no ordinary conference where you exchange facts, figures, and hop on a plane home.

I may not have left PAB 08 a “better” podcaster, but I left knowing WHY i started, why i keep doing it, and finally, that I am not the only one who does this without expectation of remuneration or guarantee of an audience. I found a tribe of kindred spirits and i sing their praises.

Hello. First, thanks for your kind comments about my presentation.

Second. Your post was a great eye opener for me.

I loved the conference but that’s because I’ve been podcasting since March ’05 and all I really want to do is meet new people, connect with those I only know from on-line, and hopefully pick up a helpful hint or two.

PAB ’08 gave me all of that and more.

BUT

You’re right. There has to be a balance and maybe there does need to be a more tangible take-away for people new to podcasting – editing, interviewing, storytelling, microphones, etc. This stuff is really intimidating and tricky. I’m still learning every day. Just yesterday I had to call a professional mixer buddy of mine to ask some audio questions.

I’m really glad you had the courage to start the conversation. I know Bob and Mark take your comments seriously.

Hope to see you at PAB ’09.

Tim

Shouldn’t I be drinking daiquiris and spacing out right now?

I think also it helps to have come back around, year after year, but that isn’t really a great way to build a more diverse group, as having a “hazing” phase will only keep most newcomers away.

As for your session, it definitely opened my eyes to Podcasting being more than just entertainment, but also crossing boundaries into teaching and all that comes with it. People are hungry for knowledge, and seek passionate people to convey that knowledge to them, and that’s why your work is so successful, despite your humorous attitude towards the contrary.

I am not in this to make money, and yeah that is a running joke, really in some respects it is a running joke in podcasting it seems.

Check out those older tech sessions from the last couple of years, and of course the Buffet is good.

Finally, thanks for the kind words. I did have a good time doing my talk, that is for sure.

The idea that great product = money isn’t necessarily true either. You have plenty of products that are crap but have a good stratagy, and you have great products with no stratagy that never go anywhere.

I don’t think I am alone in how I felt about the conference, though I do hope I am the minority.

My thoughts are really just in comparing this conference to others I have been to, and I hope that some of the suggestions I have put forth will help, as I think conferences shouldn’t be for community leaders, but instead for the community as a whole.

I, as well as a few others, represent a group of novice podcasters who don’t go to the various Barcamp events.

Yes, I did read the overview of the sessions, but I still assumed some more technical aspects would be mentioned. Someone did talk a bit about having good audio quality, but how to achieve good quality was left out.

I think some suggestions I have seen being tossed around by PAB attendees on creating group activities, and better socialization are a great start, and I think my Podcasting 101 Friday evening track might be a great way to expand the conference year after year.

As for starting my own event to fill the gap, I don’t think I have the expertise in the subject to really do that. I think that the logistics were handled VERY WELL at PAB, and was really excited that there was only one track, and thus, I wasn’t missing out on anything.

I also agree with Chris Brogan that for what amounts to two full days of conference that it is under priced (though on the flip side, I think for a newer group exploring podcasting, the price might be perfect)

Mark – RE Technology: Find a way to bring it into each session. I know the presenters really take control of what they will be talking about, but if you made a cool addition to their session, asking each presenter to list their three favourite software or hardware choices with a short explanation of why, I think that could have really helped some people, and got some good conversations going there.

Or maybe some fun interactive surveys to help people get to know each other. Get all the Audacity and other software users on one side of the room and all of the Garageband users on the other. It could make for some great pictures and still bring the software/hardware into the limelight.

RE Inspiration: I definitely don’t want to take too much away from the sessions. I think some were VERY motivational, but I still believe that there was room for some instructional.

I think too much time was spent on what seemed like congratulating peers at the event and there were MANY insider jokes that left me feeling very detached from the group.

I have done over fifty podcast episodes on a variety of topics, and still felt like I had a sign on my head saying outsider.

I asked questions of panelists. I tried to sit next to different people all the time, and introduced myself to a great number of people between sessions. I even joined in conversations where I knew absolutely no one and still found it difficult. I couldn’t imagine what people that aren’t comfortable with trying to push themselves into the inner circles feel like.

RE Monetization: I think Chris Brogan said it best, and going back, I wish his Jolt had been an entire session, with examples, and more information.

I think many of the people at the event were fairly veteran and are at the point now where they should be trying to find ways to leverage the brands they have built. I am not talking about Joe Schmo picking up a mic and trying to find sponsors for episode 2. I am talking about people who have done hundreds of episodes and still aren’t paying for their own hosting thanks to their efforts.

Lastly, I don’t think PAB is a second-tier event by any means. Just look at some of the A-List attendees you had. I think that you aren’t seeing how important it has become as a center point between Ottawa and Toronto as well as being fairly close to our US cousins. It is time for PAB to grow up and realize its potential.

I would love to come again next year providing you continue to draw some great A-List personalities, and some effort was made to go outside the normal niche, closed group of people.

Imagine if PAB inspired new people to create wonderful podcasts, rather than reminding those already podcasting to keep up the good work? Or if PAB became a place of collaboration, where people came together to find others with similar interests to go home and build projects together.

Anyways, I think I have ranted on this long enough, and I am sure that there will be many people with contrary opinions.